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Post by Goddess Yami on Mar 10, 2016 0:32:51 GMT
Okay so I figure we need an ultimate Hawkmoth thread to talk about the character himself. SO SPOILERS! Get out if you haven't watched Origins and Jackady first! You need to watch them both!
Okay so I think it's pretty much confirm that Hawkmoth is Gabriel Agreste. There is too much evidence against him and it being obvious isn't a bad thing. It adds to the story and makes things interesting. It's not like they're not pulling out of no where. I rather have it obvious than it being like Star Wars.
So far:
Hawkmoth's plan is to use the ring and earrings to bring back his wife. She may or may not be dead. I'm going with still alive because they would have said it. I don't think this show would avoid using the word death.
I'm quite please with his goal. They could have easily written him as an one dimensional character and make his goal to take over the world.
There's more to him than we think. Adrien mentioned his father was different before his mother disappear. I bet he was always stern, but he was probably liked to have fun with his family. I mean Hawkmoth has great puns. Adrien had to get that from somewhere!
He's suspicious of Adrien being Chat Noir. Okay I know the whole fandom is like HE KNOWS!!!!!1111 However I'm in the minority that thinks otherwise. It's too early for him to know. The show needs to build it up so the big reveal is more dramatic. Adrien is going to be crushed. Yes I know he looked at the ring when Adrien was Chat, but the ring looks different when the user isn't transformed. The same goes for the earrings (btw I really want to see Marinette interact with Gabriel more).
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Post by Skye Blue on Mar 11, 2016 1:16:39 GMT
SO MUCH YES FOR THIS THREAD!
I'd love to know more about Adrien's mother's disappearance (though ML please don't go all Fullmetal Alchemist if she's dead). And besides, Gabriel Agreste already rules the fashion world XD
Jokes aside, I wonder why Gabriel didn't want Adrien to go out. If he was sheltered ever since he was a kid, how permissive was Gabriel?
Yes for Marinette interacting with Gabriel. And I wonder what Gabriel would do now that he suspects Adrien. *le gasp*
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Post by Goddess Yami on Mar 12, 2016 2:45:43 GMT
My theory is something happened to Adrien when he was younger. Maybe he almost got kidnapped? He is rich after all.
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itsultrabeyza
Akuma
Posts: 40
Favorite Love Square Ship/s: Marichat
Your Punniest Pun: Why did the mushroom go to the party? Because he was a fun-gi XD
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Post by itsultrabeyza on Mar 12, 2016 4:13:09 GMT
Isn't Gabriel so fast I mean in Jackady he is jumping from Gabriel to Hawkmoth repeatedly
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Post by Goddess Yami on Mar 12, 2016 14:09:27 GMT
Well I think it's partly due to the show time. Each episode about what 22 minutes long? There's only so much they can show. I feel like a bit time passed for him to change back and forth. Also I like to believe that he has a second lair in the house while the main lair is at his office building. I saw a neat theory that there is a door behind that golden picture of his wife.
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Post by todpole on Apr 27, 2016 19:46:24 GMT
I've been thinking about the inevitable fight with Hawkmoth and I think we won't a one on one fight yet alone against two or more miraculous holder. I think it comes to his powers and how his outfit is design. This theory: meowkitty3.tumblr.com/post/142414148934/about-chat-getting-repeatedly-getting-caught-up-by :has a section that describes the heroes outfit and why they suit their roles and since Hawkmoth's a suit, I don't think he's made for combat. And his powers are about his ability to make champions to help him. The only thing I don't have a clear idea is his cane and that could have a trick or two.
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Post by Miedya Wyrm on May 15, 2016 13:26:33 GMT
Hi everyone ! Hawkmoth's identity is still the source of many questions among the fans. Only Thomas Astruc truly knows...I would like Gabriel Agreste to be Hawkmoth for the "dramatic"aspect of it. But there is some fans who believe that Hawkmoth is an other person, because his face isn't quite the same shape as Gabriel... But, could it be that Thomas Astruc didn't decide who Hawkmoth truly is until very late in the series ? Is it possible that Hawkmoth's identity was revised after ? I'm just sharing my thoughts and interrogations...
For me, Gabriel Agreste is Hawkmoth, because in the first part of "Coeur de pierre", while "hawkmoth" is talking with Nooroo before he transform, we can see that: * the character wears a shirt with the same collar as Gabriel. *He has the same profile as Gabriel. *He wears the the ring as Gabril and has the same hands, which could be seen in "Jackady" when Cat Noir and Gabriel shake hands.
The only thing that bother me in this theory is that Hawkmoth is shown directly after a scene with Gabriel...How did Gabriel manage to go in his lair so fast and return in living room so quickly after ? The only thing that explain that for me is that the producer didn't think much over that detail and hope it will confuse the fans.
Personally, I don't think that Gabriel knows his son is Cat Noir, BUT he may have noticed that his son keeps a lot of secrets and that he should personally keep on eye on him more often.
We don't know much about hawkmoth's motivations, just that he want to rule the world (he repeat that a few time after being defeated by Ladybug) and he want control. I don't know if he wants to bring back his wife or not. But, that something happened in his life over which he didn't have control. I believe Adrien's mother is dead, because we can see him and his father wearing black formal clothes on the picture hanging in the main hall. Those clothing look a lot like funeral garment to me. Maybe Gabriel believe that this "absolute power" will permit him to control his life and his son's and avoid further grief in the future ?
I also have a theory about Hawkmoth's brooch : maybe Gabriel stole that brooch from his previous owner ? That would explain why he is so overprotetive of his son, because he don't have a clear conscience and is afraid that someone will use his son to get to him ?
I think it is enough weird theories for today ! thank you for reading. (I hope my English isn't so bad, because it isn't my mother language and I don't always express myself clearly.)
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thaliel
Akuma
Posts: 45
Favorite Love Square Ship/s: Adrienette
Your Punniest Pun: Why don't ladybugs go to church? Cuz they're In Sects
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Post by thaliel on Jun 17, 2016 14:15:42 GMT
If Gabriel wasn't Hawkmoth, why would both have the same voice actor in ANY language? surely not because of budget reasons. As far as the sudden changes between identities and location go: Maybe the Miraculous privides a sort of quick transport/teleport. OR I can bring in my headcannon and claim that while bih are in fact the same person, but Gabriel not knowing so because he is suffering from a Jeckyll and Hyde level split personality disorder. WHatever he is trying to achieve could be related to Mrs Agreste, since her photo is inside the brooch. She is assumed dead to the outside world (otherwise the police etc would be looking for her), but I tend to believe that Hawkmoth knows very well where she is and what state she is in. The only iritating thing is tat Hawkmoth is a LOT taller than Gabriel. But since a miraculous can give give you all sorts of additional features, why not extra height
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Post by Miedya Wyrm on Jun 30, 2016 18:06:11 GMT
If Gabriel wasn't Hawkmoth, why would both have the same voice actor in ANY language? surely not because of budget reasons. As far as the sudden changes between identities and location go: Maybe the Miraculous privides a sort of quick transport/teleport. OR I can bring in my headcannon and claim that while bih are in fact the same person, but Gabriel not knowing so because he is suffering from a Jeckyll and Hyde level split personality disorder. WHatever he is trying to achieve could be related to Mrs Agreste, since her photo is inside the brooch. She is assumed dead to the outside world (otherwise the police etc would be looking for her), but I tend to believe that Hawkmoth knows very well where she is and what state she is in. The only iritating thing is tat Hawkmoth is a LOT taller than Gabriel. But since a miraculous can give give you all sorts of additional features, why not extra height I really like the idea of Gabriel Agreste being a villain. A split personality would explain a lot of things (same voice...) Why not a twin theory ? Maybe Hawkmoth appears to be much taller because of the camera angle ? He is often shown in Low-angle shot. In the end, it will be Thomas Astruc who will decide if Hawkmoth and Gabriel are the same person or not. I guess we will see in the second season.
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thaliel
Akuma
Posts: 45
Favorite Love Square Ship/s: Adrienette
Your Punniest Pun: Why don't ladybugs go to church? Cuz they're In Sects
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Post by thaliel on Jul 1, 2016 14:06:43 GMT
people have even gone so far as to compare the teeth to prove it cannot be the same person. The thing is: Nathaneal became taller when he was evillustrator, so it seems more than possible that a miraculous can change its weilder's physical attributes
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Post by craggle on Aug 1, 2016 22:57:07 GMT
The not deciding until later theory may have some merit, but as well as the quick changes in Jackady, we also have the "mistakes" of the positioning of the Eiffel Tower compared to the Agreste mansion/Hawk Moth's lair, and the fact that Hawk Moth has not cared one iota when akuma directly put Adrien in danger in civilian idemtity (the Gamer in particular). Given Gabriel's seeming intense desire to shelter Adrien, that seems an unusual attitude (unless the split personality is an actuality).
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thaliel
Akuma
Posts: 45
Favorite Love Square Ship/s: Adrienette
Your Punniest Pun: Why don't ladybugs go to church? Cuz they're In Sects
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Post by thaliel on Aug 2, 2016 12:57:01 GMT
you surely have heard about the sidekick Hawkie's gonna get. Now I was thinking, what if said sidekick turned out to be no other than Mrs Agreste herself? Now that would be a plot twist huh? XD
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